classroom reflection

hey everyone,

I want to share this experience with one of my students with all of you because I know you can appreciate it.

One of my students, I will call her Chris, stayed after class last week to work with me on our current writing project (Project #2). She was a bit confused about the assignment and wanted to go over structure, thesis, etc. We worked for about 30 minutes and she left my office feeling good about her work and with a clear direction for revision. So, today she decided to come to my office hours again to talk about the first paper she wrote for my class (Project #1). She was upset about her grade but has the opportunity to revise it for more points, so she was really engaged in our conversation. Again, we talked about structure, thesis, and genre--all things that needed significant improvement from her first draft. As she stood up to leave she said something every teacher and tutor (consultant, assistant) wants to hear. It was something like this: "I'm just now realizing that my rough draft isn't necessarily going to be my final draft--it's more like a starting point. It takes time to develop my ideas and my paper."

This sounds like such an obvious statement to us, but my students are at a really important point in their development as writers. For most of them, this is just their second semester out of high school, so they haven't been writing at the college level very long. I know that for me, I was a "one draft wonder" in high school. I wrote many of my assignments the class period before they were due and really didn't know how to revise an essay. I think that Chris has had a similiar experience, so it feels great to be a part of her development as a writer. I know that she would have gotten to this point one way or another, but I feel really special being there with her. I know that last part was super dorky, so I'm going to end this thing here:)

Carrie

international stuff...

i'm sorry i just wanted to say i had a really hard week...my hamster died like 2 days after she gave birth and i was ridiculously attached so i guess i learned my lesson...

What do you think when you notice a cultural difference in how a student is writing or responding to an assignment? how do you broach the subject? what things do you need to be aware of?

I am definitely interested when i tutor an international student. it's very obvious, because people who grow up in the US don't have heavy accents. (and even people who did had a different home life than me which would at the very least affect the reaction to an assignment if not the grammar.) It's fun to examine the ideas they've come up with because sometimes, they're just plain weird- things i wouldn't have ever thought about before reading their paper. I like the insight. i'm extremely curious and this is one way to satisfy my curiosity. i do, however, believe that correcting grammar is important because editing these students' papers it so difficult sometimes because the meaning is lost in translation. i am in no way interested in taking the voice away from them or their paper, i am only interested in helping get their meaning across. it is so apparent in a lot of papers i've read that the grammar is so jumbled i can't figure out what the sentence is actually saying. on top of that, i know our goal is to make everyone a better writer, but i think that our job is to help them with what they want help with. you don't expect a medical doctor to ask you about your emotional problems just like you don't expect a therapist to diagnose influenza...both of them have the ultimate goal of helping you achieve better health, but their jobs are fundamentally very different from one another. we are not teachers- we can't grade them or tell them what to write; we are not muses- we can't inspire their philosophical soul to express itself through the beauty of words (especially words that we can't understand because of jumbled tenses and incorrect diction); we are not mechanics- we can't fix the grammar without addressing the rest of the paper first (which i think you guys missed in my argument earlier...i never said we shouldn't address the global issues of a paper- there's never a time when we shouldn't discuss that with a client- however, helping them form sentences to express the thesis they are trying to write is another story- i look at that as helping them with a global issue, not with sentence-level revision. when sentence level revision is necessary for communication in the basic sense then helping them phrase the thesis seems like the biggest global problem you can possibly help them address and fix!). we are tutors- we are there to help them with what they've asked of us. the way i approach the subject, especially when the student is begging for help with grammar and punctuation, is similar to the action of a mother crushing a pill into a child's food when he won't take his medication. i go through the main points and ask them to point out where they appear (after finding out where the thesis is) and i will only help them with grammar if that particular mistake is relevant to or involves the actual point or thesis. in that way, they see it as me helping them the way they asked me to but in actuality, i am questioning every global issue involved in the writing process. and for the record, i would like to think that i am pretty intelligent and the allegation that i am correcting sentences that are only going to be taken out was kind of offensive. i do have the ability to go through with the student and decide which sentences to leave in the paper and which to take out before i correct a grammar mistake within it. i would not correct a sentence i advised them to remove. 

i have never had a student leave (when i was tutoring alone anyway) without feeling better about their paper. i've never had a student tell me they didn't understand how to fix their paper on a global level. i've never had a client leave without a developed thesis and main points to support it- that we've either identified within the paper or that i've questioned out of them. i feel as if because i was willing to acknowledge that students are different and need different kinds of help (which sometimes includes some huge grammar issues) that you guys were taking it as i was a bad tutor or that i had no concern for our goal to improve students as writers on an underlying level. i certainly think about that in every session and i have never approached a consult as a quick fix session. sorry, i had to clear that up...

That does bring me to the next question from the list stephanie gave us though...

Is it ever ok to give students quick fixes? 

I would say that depends. if a student comes in with excellent ideas that are well developed and supportive of a strong thesis, them asking for a read-over and some grammar corrections they may have missed in proof-reading is ok. They have a good grasp of the writing process and would i discuss the thesis and main points to see if maybe they could be better? yes. but quick fixes are not bad in this case. i often ask people (roommate or parents, for instance) to read over my paper because sometimes i just miss things. if someone came in and asked for a quick fix when they were missing any other part of a paper that was more important to the writing process, then it's a problem. of course, everything else (almost everything) is more important...

another case where it would be ok is when the mistake appears over and over and is a big problem to that writer. that signifies to me that they do not understand the rule that governs the use of that punctuation or that word. i will fix one sentence to show them the rule, help them fix another, then ask them to show me they can do it on their own. humans learn 90% of the information we take in through imitation. we are social beings and that's how we work. 

Strangers in a Small Town

I thought I would share another solo consultation experience that I had in the writing center yesterday.  I met a girl from my hometown with whom I share numerous mutual friends, but yet I had never met her. I think that this immediately situated us comfortably (except for the fact that we are technically cross-town rivals).  We covered a paper for WRA class about family history.  It generally had great flow, but there was on specific problem that I was shocked about.  The use of the word "like" before quotations.  It was similar to a Valley-girl from the movie Clueless.  I was like..and She was like... I made sure to correct that issue because it was the only thing that brought the paper down.  I am pretty sure that she now knows the proper words to use.  She was extremely nervous, but I eliminated that by light humor.  Actually I made her laugh so much that it probably developed into a distraction.  I need to keep that in check.  

Best,

Nascar Kass

video assignment

5. Quick fixes:

Quick fixes are a tricky subject for consultants. On one hand, many students come in needing help with grammar, punctuation, and spelling. On the other, many just want a consultant to rewrite their paper for them.

I think that it is generally not ok to do any sort of quick fix that involves writing a phrase for the client. This is their paper, not mine, and they have to articulate their own ideas. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't point out awkward sentences or suggest saying something different. It means I don't write it for them, and that I should try to get them to recognize awkwardness by themselves so that they can deal with the problem on their own.

Spelling, grammar, and punctuation are a bit different. Again, the goal of the consultant should be to get the client to find the mistakes on their own, but their really isn't any way to do this but to fix the problem. The key is to explain why the problem should be fixed, and to encourage the client to make corrections as he/she reads through the paper. I generally give grammar corrections, etc. if the client specifically asks for them, especially if they are an international student that is still learning the ropes. I always explain why there is a correction needed, and to relate recurring problems back to each other, in order to get the client to be able to make these corrections on their own.

The danger with quick fixes is writing for a student, not helping them be clear in their own words.

Quick Fix for a Surface Error

 #5.  Is it ever ok to give students quick fixes?

The question of whether it is okay to give a client a quick fix is a tricky subject indeed.  At first thought (and I almost typed it up as my answer) I thought it would be fine to give a student a quick fix to a problem that does not appear to be a recurring theme in their paper.  However, with deeper thinking about the issue, I have decided it is not so easy.  Unless a student was typing late at night and just goofed their keystrokes then there MUST be a reason for a mistake in the paper.  Perhaps it only occurs once in the paper because they were afraid to use it again? Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that you cant jump to conclusions about a student by giving quick fixes.  If the mistake is a major issue then it would be best to question their use and THEN decide what course of action to take. 

#4 How do you decide how much to work on a surface error in the writing center? 

Determing how much to work on an issue that occurs just a few times in a client's paper is a tough decision.  As writing consultants we are supposed to deal mostly with the overall theme of the paper to make sure it makes a solid argument.  However, we are in the position to help a student with the issues that are bugging them.  I think that the discussion of surface errors should be the last part of the tutoring process, and not even be mentioned until the paper develops into a strong piece of writing.  If the surface error is affecting the writer's ability to perform, then we must act as well.

- After answering these questions I am curious as to what the responses of the other students in class will be.

Nascar Kass

 

video assignment

1. Cultural preferences:

I'd say that I definitely have western European and especially American cultural preferences when it comes to both reading and writing. I am very focused on the American experience in my own writing, because for western civilization, the Americas were literally the last frontier--the ends of the earth--for exploration and colonization. I don't condone any of the travesties that were committed by settlers here, but the idea of a "new," lawless, far-western continent appeals to me, and I think that Americans today are still very different from Europeans, and that a lot of these differences grow out of the land we call "America." I see myself distinctly as an organic product of this land, and it has shaped my self while I have grown in its soil.

Besides that preference, I also have a strong interest in Japanese culture, because I lived there for a few years. Living overseas at a young age was a very powerful experience for me, and Japanese culture has some very beautiful and striking differences--and similarities, if yr willing to look deep enough--to American culture.

I also have an interest in American Indian culture, but I cannot call it more than an interest because I have not spent enough time learning about it.

My 5b. is Late, but at Least I am Honest

Exercise 5B - If you couldnt tell by the title
If I am stressed, it will not appear in writing because that comes dead last. The Fall Semester of '07 I didn't have any writing stress, as none of my classes required me to type anything of academic merit. <--- THE EASIEST SEMESTER SO FAR ---> Now...transition to this semester in ENG 391 with an entire class focusing on writing and tutoring of writing... It takes me a long time to get into the swing of churning out papers on a weekly basis, so this is a big switch.
My biggest issue with any form of writing is getting "in" to the subject. Once I have found what issue I want to discuss, then it is the problem of word choice that places a sharp tack in the proverbial writing road. It is a rare occassion when I can swerve and avoid the issue or be able to drive straight through with no issues. It usually blows my tire and leaves me waiting for a boost. I guess this shows my biggest concern of appealing to the audience to which I am writing and not sounding like a complete idiot (which probably would happen anyways). My other primary concern is developing an idea that is strong enough to last for whatever the required length of the paper is. I would have to say that length of paper is the primary goal of any of my academic writing. (On a side note: I do very little personal creative writing, art and music is more of my thing)
As far as relations to ESL students go, and as I have mentioned before I can't imagine being in a foreign country where I have only the education of a school for language. No matter how good your schooling is, you have to have the first-hand experience of conversation with a native speaker in order to gauge the level of your fluency. I went to Germany for just a short time and was very lost in the language. It is in the oral sense that I can relate, as language on paper comes much easier to me. Speaking has major roots in automatic responses and the lack of time to think of a response. I have great respect for those foreign students who are able to speak two or more languages.
Sorry for the rambling and I hope you can follow my ideas. I am sure I am not alone in my concerns.

Writing Across Borders or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Love the Message in the Text Rather than the Technics Without

Let me express my grievances thus: free of form but full of function. I started this assignment with two questions pasted on a word document, attempting to answer these two in sequence, and separately. This didn't work as well as I would have liked. The original questions where #2 and #4, but I realized that it kind of included #5 and parts of #6. I believe all the points I make below answer in whole (or in part, in the case of #5 and #6) the questions raised, and hence, is not an incomprehensible chimera of cluttered... can't find another “c” word. Enjoy.

To start out: a disclaimer. For the past few weeks that I have started consulting on my own, I'd have to say that about three-quarters or so of my clients have been ESL students, particularly students from Korea. Most, if not all the literature we've read so far concerning teaching ESL students would have me believe that this perceived “cultural” difference overrides the individual personalities of these clients and how they respond in sessions when it comes to their participation, submissive/dominant aspects, and intentions to “sound” a certain way (a native American English-speaker). The tendency in these articles, it seems, is to assign native speakers a role as “less complete” in their understanding of what they want to say in English (a valid point), subjugating non-native speakers as inferior (even though this is not the intention) in their “understanding” of what it means to be a “native” speaker. This, I believe, unfairly pegs them into an inadvertent self-fulfilling prophecy of the “superiority” of sounding “native” and being self-conscious of the linguistic choices that they, as both people AND students make. While these studies have indeed made me aware of certain cultural differences that I may face as a consultant, their observations are base at best, and I have found (in my short time, let's wait and see) more evidence to suggest (and common sense to approve) that these clients are, of course, people first, with their own desires and intentions,and ESL students second. They understand WHAT they want to say, and the intention to sound “native”, while understandable, should not simply be swept aside. Instead, this desire should be taken into consideration when the primary intent of a piece is to send a message, which is the purpose of writing in the first place. The very fact that we peg them ESL students is unfortunate; they are fully capable of expressing their ideas, but WE as readers should pick up part of the burden in understanding the cultural differences. It becomes too easy to avoid the responsibility of not understanding and setting artificial “cultural” boundaries that only get in the way of understanding when we WANT them to. Take THAT, pedagogy juggernauts.

It's tempting for some to think that an ESL student's silence or tacit submission to the consultant's will is an example of pedagogy-gone-wrong. In the literature we've been exposed to so far, there seems to be an attempt to make a blanket statement quick-fix on our part, that we are indeed doing something wrong by occasionally “taking control” of an ESL students work. Merely “noticing” a cultural difference is a quaint idea, one I would liken to last century's myth of scientific “race”; the only reason this “difference” exists is because we would like very much to believe it does exist. By coming to a session with the conception that we should somehow “alter” our understanding of both client and text alters the playing field in our favor, not the client's: we are now playing the very hegemonic academia-centered game we strived to quit in the first place by “understanding” on our terms.

The mere truth is this: sentences are the results of thought; these thoughts the children of ideas in our conscious self, and the conscious self emerges from the assembled energies, hopes, and aspirations of the deeper self that indeed makes a self a “self”. We easily understand the ideas that people raise because we ourselves recognize these ideas as part of our own existence, even when these are not expressed in a “technical” way (i.e., art, music, emotive gestures, etc.). Sentence- and idea-level comprehension, I believe, should not be approached with as much pretense and importance with which we usually approach such things. When among our “peers” (both cultural and academic), the distance can easily be bridged between these technical forms of understanding, and hence, we can more exactly apprehend the “meaning” of a text written because we comprehend these structures. But when it comes to those different than ourselves, it better serves to either ignore or assign these structures a lesser degree of importance, as insisting upon them does little justice to understanding the underlying meaning in the text. However, I assign the blame not to those who claim us to be different in our understanding of the human condition, but rather to those who approach the inter-cultural writing process as some vacuous exercise “preserving 'culture' vs. preserving 'voice' and technics”, as if these are exclusive to the other and cannot exist the the same space.

*Phew*. Such is my manifesto.

Writing Across Boarders

by David Tibergien

1) As a writer, I have different culture preferences than a lot of other Midwestern Americans. A lot of the institutions that teach and facilitate academic, journalistic and political writing value rhetorical economy. I like to employ magniloquent phrases, compound complex sentences, and a flavorful vocabulary in my work. While I understand that such writing might not necessarily appeal to a broad audience, it does appeal to those with whom I feel that I am culturally aligned. I don't write for 3rd generation foundry workers or anyone who argues with straight face that NASCAR is a sport, especially Kassidy.

I feel at an impasse when I am asked to employ a method and a style that are typically mandated in academia; much the same way a foreign student might be frustrated when they are asked to adapt to academic English. In the film a student from Ecuador said that she was accustom to putting the main idea in the middle of their writing while all that comes before it builds up to that main topic. A Turkish student said that she was used to using complex sentences and artful language because it produced a pleasing prose. The cultural differences of each of these students are at odds with much of the writing demands that they encounter in the United States.

6) If an ESL student had told me that they wanted their graduate application statement to sounds exactly like it was from a native speaker, I would first examine their motives.

First I would try to find out why do they want to sound like a native speaker, especially since academia usually rewards diversity. I suspect that their concern could stem from a perceived xenophobia or a lack of confidence in their writing skills.

I would suggest to the student that rather than making them sound like a native speaker, that we work to produce a writing that is original and in their own voice while striving to avoid things that might be a barrier to their admittance to the program for which they are applying.

Otherwise, it is unethical to help a client produce a writing that isn't an example of his or her style, voice and sensibilities. For sure, it does not give the admissions officer a sense of how that student will perform in the classroom.

This is the movie transcript webpage

http://cwl.oregonstate.edu/wab/WABTranscript.pdf

Reflections on Eurotrip

I was watching the infamous Eurotrip movie this weekend and couldn't help but mention the problem that started the whole trip to Europe.  Scott is an English speaking American who exchanges emails with who he thinks is a German guy named Mike.  He thinks that this man is making moves on him one night after being dumped by his girlfriend so he shoots him an angry message.  Little did he know, it was actually a very cute german girl. Had he been paying attention to her emails he would have seen that she even used female pronouns!  Her name is not Mike, but rather it is pronounced Me-Kah (The German form of Michelle). This movie shows a classic form of misunderstanding another culture.  I think we could potentially take the lessons learned in this movie and apply it to our jobs.  Do not make assumptions that you know everything about another culture.  Pay attention to DETAILS. That is all. Thought I should throw out this silly comparison.

IMP!

PLEASE GO ON ANGEL AND CLICK ON FOLDER KRISH BY JANET FINLAYSON.